TR4A coolant flow rate

[Z320]

Hi,

from one of my construction sites I got this utlta sonic heat meter (also m³/h) in my workshop.

I was always interested in the amount of coolant flow rate of my TR4A's rad (while I have no coolung problems AT ALL).

Currently with the return hose out (to get the timing chian cover off) I got this stupid idea again....

I guess this could fit....

Ciao, Marco

Edited December 23, 2024 by Z320

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Please let us have your findings before the MT lock you out.

Thanks

[Z320]

Sorry,

testing different pumps and gaps on the road will be during 2025, not finished in January 2025.

Ciao, Marco

[RJSTR4A]

Very interested Marco.  I just posted on another forum the other day regarding the vast differences between 4-vane impellors available from the various suppliers.  It appears they can be rather different and the key to a good performing pump is having minimal clearance between the impellor and the back of the water pump housing. Otherwise, it just sloshes the coolant about without actually pushing it through the circuit.  I think the ideal clearance is 1-2mm, no more.

The water pump I replaced on my car back in July 2012 was a Beck Arnley Part No. 131-0960 (photo attached).  The vanes on this pump measured 13/16" (21mm) tall from the face of the pump.  It was installed when the engine was rebuilt in 2000 and lasted 12 yrs/ 9,000 miles before failing.  At the time, the new replacement pump I order from one of the big suppliers measured only 11/16" (17.5mm).  I ended up returning that one and going a different direction.

If anyone has a NOS original water pump out of the car, I'd be curious of the measurements there.  I think the ideal is to rebuild an original pump - if you still have one.

Bob

Edited December 24, 2024 by RJSTR4A

[Z320]

Hi Bob,

most interesting are "uprated“ pumps,

promised without any date of benefit in %, just "uprated".

Sadly I don't own one because I don't see any need.

Perhaps "Rainer H." borrows me his, newly bought, car is not driving...

Impeller is 22.5 mm high on my original and my Bastuck pumps, housing is 23 mm deep + thin gasket

--> gap is not more than 1 mm.

Ciao, Marco

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by Z320
Letter missing, my poor English

[Nigel C]

my thoughts were that it needs to run as close as you can get it for best results....but...out in it today (very damp 3*) and it still got hot 

[Z320]

Good evening, the project started,

My plan is to measure an original pump + a Bastuck repro pump, with standard and different gaskets --> gaps.

Perhaps someone will lend me his "uprated" pump....

Ciao, Marco

 

[Nigel C]

excellent idea Marco!

[Drewmotty]

An interesting experiment. I’ll be watching for the results. 

[Jase]

I've just ordered one of these for pick up from Stoneleigh, my original is fine but I'm going to swap out and keep my original as a spare:

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/en-gb/water-pump-no-pulley-uprated-qhqcp170x?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAy8K8BhCZARIsAKJ8sfSBdDcmN-CzUOJKJegUSPzG6vFmoPL-QRkGF-s_UZqmG66Zc6QackUaAmofEALw_wcB

Any feedback on these?

Thanks

[rcreweread]

2 hours ago, Jase said:

I've just ordered one of these for pick up from Stoneleigh, my original is fine but I'm going to swap out and keep my original as a spare:

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/en-gb/water-pump-no-pulley-uprated-qhqcp170x?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAy8K8BhCZARIsAKJ8sfSBdDcmN-CzUOJKJegUSPzG6vFmoPL-QRkGF-s_UZqmG66Zc6QackUaAmofEALw_wcB

Any feedback on these?

Thanks

Jason - see these earlier comments from Tony Sheach (TR4Tony VC ) in the thread below - you need to go down a little way to find it - link here:

If you want to fit a stud instead of the bolt to make removal and refitting easier, it is a combination of UNF and UNC threads at opposite ends and I think I'm right in saying it is 3" x 3/8 - part no TE506241 at an eye watering price! If you want one at a much more reasonable price, I can bring one along to Stoneleigh - I can also do you a pump - I have my last batch of reconditioned pumps arriving from EPS tomorrow and when they are gone, they're gone -they will be priced at £95 outright - I also a box full of nice pulleys which have been blasted and painted and they are £15 each

Cheers Rich C-R

[Z320]

Hi,

ready, all fitted, but sadly with +2°C too cold to have a noticable flow rate.

Time to do something different.....

Ciao, Marco

[Andy Moltu]

Have you removed the thermostat to stop this affecting the flow measurements?

[Z320]

Currently not,

yesterday we have been out for a 50 miles Ausfahrt at outside +2°C.

I don’t what to drive this way without thermostat.

It was most time closed, sometimes slightly opened around 83- 85°C (86°C thermostat),

while the return from the rad about 35-40° „ice cold“.

That (for me) shows how much the thermostat and bypass us needed up to about 20°C outside temperature.

Ciao, Marco

[Z320]

Hi,

a year without the thermostat full opening I'm conviced my 4 pot engine does not need more coolant flow.

So I deinstalled the ultra sonic heat meter a few weeks back again, ready to give it to the electronic scrap at the village recycle yard.

And now (!) a club friend send me his 6 vanes uprated water pump and asked me for a repair (it is leaking). Why not, if it can be repaired?

The 6 vanes look nice from this view....

But from this side too?

While the original bronze impeller is 22 mm high, the 6 vanes start at only 12 mm and are max 18 mm high.

The water pump housing is 23 mm deep + paper gasket and the original uses this as good als possible.

While the "uprated" 6 vanes pump wastes a lot of potential.

The outside diameter is about the same, but the uprated vanes are pretty short

With 43.5 mm the original looks liek this in the center

I'm pleased with my reconditioned original water pump.

The "uprated" one gets a further examination but will not be repaired.

Ciao, Marco

 

 

[Z320]

Hi,

the pump is in pieces and the problem was a crack in the rubber part of the old and hardened rubber part.

To pull the impeller of I cut a gap for a puller but failed, I also failed with my 2 to lever press (ggd enogh for original pumps).

Only brute force from my 20 to press worked because the interference fit of the shaft in the bearings was VERY tight.

Also the interference fit of the impeller on the shaft.

 

The 20 to press damaged the bearings (they have not been good before) and IMO ths pump is not made to repair.

Anyway, the sliding seal is aviable, called 15.9 (shaft) x 36.5 (OD of the cup) x 42.0 (total outside diameter) x 19.5. Also the 6203 2RS bearings for the 17 mm shaft.

For the case of a repair it must be well concerned in which way the parts must be assembled to avoid damage.

But my mate agrees with me to scrap it.

Ciao, Marco

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

I think you made the right decision 

Throw it away.