Gearbox selector /engage

[stevenphillips]

Morning All

Need some help please from the Forum directive as I'm a trifle stumped.

I had been having issue with the clutch getting stuck if I hadn't driven the 6 for a while and this had happened a couple of time over the 28 years I've had the pleasure of owning my 6.  Unfortunately the only way I could disengage it was to drive it in 2nd/3rd and the step in the brakes and usually it would snap free and all was good to go.  Didn't like to do this but it only happened about 3 times over the years (note to self, drive the TR more than I current have time to do!). 

About 2 months ago I decide to bite the bullet and change the clutch complete with a B&B unit and all went to plan.  Clutch changed as expected, even had the opportunity to put the correct bolts in places that they were either missing or wrong. 

I drove the 6 for about 150 miles with a decent trip from Bognor to Bristol and back in one day to drop the son off at UNI.

In general all was good though I did notice sometimes it seemed a bit stiff to get in gear.

Anyways a few weeks ago I went out and on a beautiful sunny day and when I selected reverse the gearstick became stuck and would not move out of the reverse / almost in reverse position and I could not select anything and no gear was actually selected.

This happened in a car park so I with some help pushed it in a spot, (as it was in effect still in neutral) took the gear lever out to see if there was something easy so that I could at least limp home but to no avail and eventually had to get the trouble and strife to tow me home, she's a goodun.

I realise that I will undoubtedly need to remove the gearbox cover and possibly the selector mechanism as I suspect there is a dowel or ball bearing interlock issue. I am hoping to at least start with my enthusiastic son today.  

Any suggesting of the places to investigate would be well received and or people that have experienced the same issue 

Thanking Y'All in advance

Steve

[Chilliman]

Steve, I think the first place to start & one of the easiest is that little tiny plunger that sits in the base of the gearstick with a spring behind it. It could be as simple as the plunger becoming worn & dislodging from its hole & jamming the lever preventing the normal range of movement.

[stevenphillips]

Hi John

 

Thank you for the reply John and I had suspected the plunger but when I took the gearstick out in the carpark, I could see that this was not the issue because I could put the gearstick back in place without the plunger (which was new as it was missing when I changed the clutch) I could still not shift the gearstick to any position other than where it was stuck, which was shifted towards reverse.

Thank you for your reply though its much appreciated.

Steve 

[Chilliman]

Steve, with the gearstick out, were you able to move any of the selector rods independently of the gearstick? Use something like a screwdriver to pry the rods to & fro - if they are all locked solid then it's off with its lid to establish if it is the selector rod mechanism or something within the box itself.

[stevenphillips]

Hi John

So with the gear shifter out I can move the lhs (looking towards the front of the car from a seat) selector rod forward and slightly backwards but not into the out of gear position with the slots all lining up.  So the lhs selector moves forward and backwards about 20 mm but not all the way back to the home position/ if that makes sense.

 

I will take a pict

Thank you for your reply

Steve 

[stevenphillips]

Hi John

So the selector will move from picture one to picture two and no further/ almost like the interlock is jammed.  It is free to move between these two positions.

Im hoping to not have to remove everything again as I took so much time to align everything.

Thanks John

 

Steve

[stuart]

Thats stuck part way into reverse by the looks of it, the play is just on the selector arm. Im afraid thats a top off the box job to investigate further.

Stuart.

[Chilliman]

Sorry to say Steve but Stuarts right, the top needs to come off to investigate further, I was rather hoping it would have been more simple for you.

[John Morrison]

True but at least only the top

Steve if you find you need any bits get in touch I’ve alsorts

John

[stevenphillips]

OK Thank you Stuart & John

 

Im in the process of taking the gearbox cover off as we speak so hopefully its not too much of an arduous task.

Let you know what I find 😖

Steve

[Chilliman]

Fingers crossed it's just the selector shafts 🤞

[RogerH]

Hi Steve,

taking the top off is an easy job.

You will then have the selectors and forks on a table in front you to inspect easily.

The selector interlock is centred about the middle (1st/2nd gear).  I can't see this being the problem after so many years, but!!

You should be able to push pull (one at a time) all the rods.

However if the interlock is jammed then you may well have trouble dis-assembling the whole thing.

Usually  You undo the three selector fork taperlok screws (square head). Removed the three detent plugs. 

Then pull out either reverse or 3rd/4th selector rods - 'if they come out' 

Collect the two balls and one slug

Remove the other rods

easy peasy  

 

Good luck

Roger

[stevenphillips]

OK so the selector top I now have off and the selectors move correctly now but I cannot see why it have happened !

Question, is it possible to put the top plate back on without aligning the reverse selector onto the pin ?

The reverse arm move freely so I am struggling to see why this could have happened and obviously I'm cautious to put it back together because I haven found the reason why.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 Steve

[Chilliman]

Steve, when you say the reverse arm, do you mean the selector in the lid? that moves freely? if so what about the reverse lever in the box?

[stevenphillips]

Hi John

The reverse lever in the gearbox moves freely.  The selector arm in the top that connects to the gearbox revere selector are using a u shaped cutout for the pin to slot into also moves freely, albeit allowing for the force needed to get past the spring loaded dowel.

So I cant really understand why this has happened.

Steve

[Chilliman]

Okay, so if the lever in the box is moving okay & engaging/disengaging the reverse gear as it should that's all good news, whilst the top is off I'd just check that the other gear clusters - synchro hubs are also free to move back & forward & if everything is okay it really is looking like an issue with the selector housing, tempting as it is to put it all back & hope for the best it would be better to find the actual issue & sort it. I'm not a big believer in stuff just fixing itself 

[John Morrison]

2 hours ago, stevenphillips said:

OK so the selector top I now have off and the selectors move correctly now but I cannot see why it have happened !

Question, is it possible to put the top plate back on without aligning the reverse selector onto the pin ?

The reverse arm move freely so I am struggling to see why this could have happened and obviously I'm cautious to put it back together because I haven found the reason why.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 Steve

Yes I think it is.

I would check the top cover whilst it is on the bench, if all seems ok 

re-fit, not a long job, put the cover back over loosely and take it for a test drive, 

you,ll soon know if it feels normal or not.

John.

[stevenphillips]

Hi John

the only thing that I have noticed is that the 1st and 2nd gear selector shaft end is worn.  See pictures.  And whilst I know this is not the cause of the jam I think whilst I have the top cover in bit I should replace, (Im going to replace the o ring seals whilst its out)

Issue is that no one have a new one and no one seems to make this any more.  Any ideas or do you think the wear is acceptable?

Thanks Again

Steve

[RogerH]

Hi Steve

 

PM sent

 

Roger

[Chilliman]

To be honest Steve they look like fresh witness marks which takes us back to the base of the gear stick, any chance there could have been remains of an old indent plunger caught in the grease which has been jamming against the wall there?

[AJAS]

I had a similar problem when I overhauled the top cover, I found bothe overdrive interlock switches were causing a problem. Maybe loosen those and reverse interlock half a turn and see if that helps 

[stevenphillips]

OK AJAS

Though the arm was totally jammed at the time and not even levering with a screwdriver would move it.  Its only since I took the top cover off that the selector arms are now moving.  Im considering that maybe I did not align the reverse arm with the pin correctly and I was just lucky for a bit whilst I needed reverse until it totally jammed.... maybe...

John

I've gunked the whole top plate now and its totally dismantled but I have not found the plunger which I know when I put in the new clutch was missing.  I did at that time (3 weeks ago ish) put in a brand new plunger, but I saw it pop out when I took the gear shift out.  It fell onto the road beneath and I haven't found it yet so I've ordered another this afternoon with new cores etc.

I'm going to carefully put it back together with plenty of oil and try it for a run.  If I still have issues I will have to drop the gearbox again to see if there is an issue with the reverse idler gear shaft.

Happy days

Steve  

[stevenphillips]

Sorry forgot to say,]

Anyone have any thoughts on the 1st / 2nd gear selector end wear (see above pics) ?

Or better still, is there a supplier of these that I'm not aware of, Rimmer, SC, Moss have them as not available. Dag namit.

Steve

[Chilliman]

Steve, given those marks I'd be surprised if there were any problems with the idler shaft. just de-bur the cup & grease it up on re-assembly & see how it goes. If it still gives you problems let me know I'm sure I could find a decent end unit for the reverse shaft.

[stevenphillips]

3 minutes ago, Chilliman said:

Steve, given those marks I'd be surprised if there were any problems with the idler shaft. just de-bur the cup & grease it up on re-assembly & see how it goes. If it still gives you problems let me know I'm sure I could find a decent end unit for the reverse shaft.

OK John

Thank you I will pack it out and see how it goes.

Its the rhs end looking towards the front of the car from a seat so I believe its the 1st 2nd gear selector, isnt it ?

The left had selector end has the reverse idler arm on it and its barely worn, almost new looking.

Thanks

Steve