Which starter motor would you recommend?

[R1ceman]

Yesterday my TR4 (+ earth) failed to start. Cable from the solenoid to starter motor was extremely hot and the wire from battery terminal to bulkhead was smoking. Concensus amo got the group present was that my starter motor was shot. A push start got me going and managed to get home without any issues.

So today I will be removing the old part and possible getting it refurbished. I'm also toying with the idea of upgrading to a high torque version but have seen some bad reports rgds WOSP models.

Any recommendations gratefully received. Also is removal straight forward or is there anything I need to be aware of before I dive in?

 

Cheers. Andy

[R1ceman]

Update.

I just pushed the car out of the garage and before disconnecting the battery I thought I would see if the old girl would start and she did. Now I'm unsure what to do 🤔

[Andy Moltu]

Modern Wasp or equivalent.

[R1ceman]

Update.

Applying the principles of highly trained RAF technicians, of changing parts until it works,  I changed the starter motor solenoid with a spare one I had and bingo it's fixed 👍 Looks like I don't need a starter motor after all.

[John Morrison]

Well you would have taken that result yesterday, Andy, 

I'm sure.

Sorted.

P.S. I'm sticking with original Starter Moter, not failed yet and easy fix when it does.

John.

[Lebro]

Bad solenoid does not explain the hot,& smoking cables. The starter motor had stalled for whatever reason, & was drawing far more current than it would normally do.

Bob.

P.S.   Wosp for me.

[R1ceman]

Yes, if only I'd stuck it in the boot as originally intended. Point taken, it may be wise to get a new starter motor in preparation for its failing in the future. I really don't fancy crawling under the car in this heat so hopefully it will last untill it gets a little cooler

[R1ceman]

Thanks for highlighting that Bob, I  will take that on board.

[Chris Hale]

If cables are getting hot that sounds like an earthing problem.

Have you got a good earth going from the block to body/chassis and the earth cable in good condition?

WOSP for me too 

[trchris]

Agree with Bob it must have been drawing a lot of current to get the cables hot 

Chris

[Lebro]

1 hour ago, Chris Hale said:

If cables are getting hot that sounds like an earthing problem.

Have you got a good earth going from the block to body/chassis and the earth cable in good condition?

A bad earth would cause less current to flow, not more !

[Chris Hale]

I bow down to your superior knowledge

[R1ceman]

Thanks every for all your input. New WOSP starter motor ordered from the TR Shop.

[R1ceman]

Hi again,

I'm trying to install my new WOSP and have a couple of questions. Forgive me if they are pretty lame but I'm a novice at this kind of thing.

1. Which way up does it go in?

I'm assuming that the fixed bolt is at the top But there is a bolt already there. Can this be pushed through as there  is little to no access to it? Fitting the nut on would be nigh on impossible which then makes me think it should be the other way round.

2. Do you fit the metal gasket which came off with the old starter motor? Picture attached.

3. If I am connecting the new motor with the cable from my starter solenoid, do I need to attach the small jumper cable supplied with the new motor?

All help gratefully received.

Now I'm off to have a coffee to help me calm down.

Cheers Andy

[RobH]

Probably best to ft it with the solenoid upwards Andy, away from the hot exhaust pipe.    If that puts the fixed bolt in the way, it is usually possible to rotate the fixing flange by undoing the retaining screws -  in fact with some motors that allows you to index the orientation to the most convenient angle to give best clearance.  

You probably don't need the spacer ring that the old starter had. 

In terms of the wiring you have two choices:

 

The first option uses the existing wiring and requires the link you mentioned between the large and small tags.  In the second the heavy starter cable goes from the big tag to the battery-side of the original solenoid and you need a new wire from the old solenoid to the small tag on the starter. That wire needs to take up to 40A. 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2025 by RobH

[R1ceman]

12 minutes ago, RobH said:

Probably best to ft it with the solenoid upwards Andy, away from the hot exhaust pipe.    If that puts the fixed bolt in the way, it is usually possible to rotate the fixing flange by undoing the retaining screws -  in fact with some motors that allows you to index the orientation to the most convenient angle to give best clearance.  

You probably don't need the spacer ring that the old starter had. 

In terms of the wiring you have two choices:

 

The first option uses the existing wiring and requires the link you mentioned between the large and small tags.  In the second the heavy starter cable goes from the big tag to the battery-side of the original solenoid and you need a new wire from the old solenoid to the small tag on the starter. That wire needs to take up to 40A. 

 

 

Thanks Rob, that's cleared everything up for me. I just need to find a way of fixing the nut to the fixed bolt. I'm hoping I can get a socket on with a bendy extension ( not sure of the correct terminology) to tighten it up.

[james christie]

Good advice from RobH on turning the flange through 180°. You can now put a loose bolt through at the top and screw it into a nut that you are holding judiciously in place. You can then get a spanner on the bolt head, as you have already found out, it is impossible to tighten the nut.

It is fairly easy to put the nut on the fixed bolt from underneath.

I think the metal spacer/ gasket is to adjust the position of the pinion in relation to the toothed ring on the flywheel.

james

 

Edited August 13, 2025 by james christie

[Pontious]

1 hour ago, R1ceman said:

Thanks Rob, that's cleared everything up for me. I just need to find a way of fixing the nut to the fixed bolt. I'm hoping I can get a socket on with a bendy extension ( not sure of the correct terminology) to tighten it up.

I’ve just fitted a Wosp starter motor to my 4A and had an initial difficulty with that awkward nut.   However I found the easy fix was to drop the exhaust downpipe and remove the initial section of exhaust to gain better access from underneath. I used a long extension bar with the angle adapter at the end + socket. No problems thereafter; just need someone to guide the socket in from above.   Good luck whichever way you choose.  Great starter!

David

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Or cut a neat hole in the gearbox tunnel and work from in the footwell 

 

We have a crows foot spanner that fits in an extension that can be operated from under the bonnet   above the starter motor 

 

Edited August 13, 2025 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[R1ceman]

Update.

It's in and working.

In the end I had to undo the gearbox cover, after removeing the seats and carpets, to allow me to get my hand in enough to place the washer and nut onto the bolt. After that I had a combination of extensions (see photo) to allow me to tighten it up. It took forever but I got there in the end. The Mrs wasn't happy when I started the engine at 10pm to drive it in the garage 🙄 

This afternoon I will replace the carpets and seats and take her out for a test run.

 

Thanks again for all your top tips!

 

Cheers, Andy

[Lebro]

Well done.  I'm lucky, I can get to the rear nut with a slightly cranked ring spanner from the engine side.

Bob

[Z320]

Hi,

I turned my Wosp starter down on my TR4A via the adjustable flange because special issues of my MX5 gearbox.

That works in one position only and brings it close to the exhaust - and the electric terminals annoying close (to work) to the engine.

I gave the exhaust a VERY limited insulation wrap. That works since some years.

The distancer "shim" is needed with Bendix starter to adjust the needed distance between Bendix gear to the starter ring.

Most folks fit any number of them without knowing what they do.

The needed distance for the Bendix starter is documented here anywhere.

Ciao, Marco

Edited August 15, 2025 by Z320

[Z320]

found it again, from the workshop maual:

"out of mash" clearance, all (Bendix) types, except "Eclipse" type = 1/8"

[Mees]

Hello all

I'm struggling with my standard Lucas starter on my 4A. It is intermittently sounding like the starter is turning over, but the pinion is not engaging with the fly wheel. I have had the starter checked twice, and told it is working perfectly, Ive changed the solenoid, the battery is fine, and the earths are all good. I'm considering going for a Hi Torque Starter, but would like to get to the bottom of this particular problem, Incidentally problem exhibits itself while trying to turn the engine over just on the solenoid, ie not on the key.

Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas please. I have attached a short video. The engine turns over twice ok, but it is the third attempt where you hear the peculiar noise. Thanks

 

Ian Meeson

My Movie 1.mp4.zip

[RobH]

A four-pot engine usually stops in one of two positions 180 degrees apart Ian, where one of the cylinders is on  the compression stroke.   That means those areas on the ring-gear get all the wear from the pinion meshing.   What condition is your flywheel ring-gear in at those positions? 

If it only happens when manually operating the solenoid, it may just be the contacts are not making properly because you aren't pushing consistently, whereas the coil always does it with the same force. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 23 by RobH