Replacement Fuel Line

[My Dads Car]

Hi - I’ve installed the fuel tank in my LHD 4A and am in the process of running new fuel lines ( the kit from Automec) I have a couple of questions: 

Here’s a photo of how I have the line exiting the tank. Does this look right to you all in terms of clearing the axel half-shaft?

The line extends a bit past the box behind the transmission. This leads to my next question: how to join 2 sections of pipe? I have the 5/16 rubber connectors and clamps from the kit. How much do they need to cover the pipe to be considered safe? The one I tried as a test was a bear to push on and only went about 1”, maybe 2”. Is that enough on either end?

Finally, how do I test if the fitting to the tank is fluid tight? Obviously not going to pour water in there and don’t want to use gasoline since the engine is still out of the car… Any recommendations for a fluid to test with?

Thank you in advance for all suggestions!

Jamie

[Ralph Whitaker]

Hi Jamie,

looks OK to me, well clear of axle. There is no great pressure on the fuel line other than gravity so 1 to 2 inches of rubber pipe pushed over the copper should be fine. Could always double up on the pipe clips if you wanted to be sure. Is it an olive fitting on the fuel tank end?, if so they usually make a good seal but check by only putting a gallon in the tank at first, it may weep but will just need an extra nip up and should stop.

Ralph.

[RogerH]

Hi Jamie,

the clearance over the drive shafts looks very good. The diff does not move,unlike a live axle, and the shafts do not swing a ghreat deal.

The outlet from the tank looks as if it is at a slight angle. I assume the pipe is not pulling it. They usually come out straight down.

The rubber connector needs a good 1". If it is tight to go on then it will be tight to come off.  Do use a jubilee typeclip to keep it in place.

Here in the UK we have Ethanol in the petrol and that can have a bad effect on rubber. So we have different grades of rubber to cope with it
it started with R6. Then went to R9 and is now R14.  If your rubber is unmarked then keep an annual eye on it.

As for leak testing - wait until you can put petrol in the tank then add enough to cover the fitting and wait and see.

 

Roger
 

[stuart]

FWIW the normal route on an IRS car would be to come straight down out of the tank and then forward along the inside of the chassis same as a PI car. As to the join then make sure the rubber pipe goes on at least an inch and that it is at the least R9 spec but preferably R14 to cope with higher concentrations of ethanol as you dont want to revisit it later with fuel in the tank. Also dont use jubilee clips but use proper hose clips instead like these Hose clips.

Stuart. 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

I prefer constant tension clamping clips  Corbin type or otherwise  The double wire type are nice.

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/hose-clamps/hose-clamps-2~/constant-tension-spring-clamps-for-firm-hose-and-tube/

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

3 hours ago, RogerH said:

Hi Jamie,

the clearance over the drive shafts looks very good. The diff does not move,unlike a live axle, and the shafts do not swing a ghreat deal.

The outlet from the tank looks as if it is at a slight angle. I assume the pipe is not pulling it. They usually come out straight down.

The rubber connector needs a good 1". If it is tight to go on then it will be tight to come off.  Do use a jubilee typeclip to keep it in place.

Here in the UK we have Ethanol in the petrol and that can have a bad effect on rubber. So we have different grades of rubber to cope with it
it started with R6. Then went to R9 and is now R14.  If your rubber is unmarked then keep an annual eye on it.

As for leak testing - wait until you can put petrol in the tank then add enough to cover the fitting and wait and see.

 

Roger
 

Put the end of the length of new hose you have in a container of fuel for a week.  Take out and inspect for swelling or disintegration.  Or just go and buy stuff that is rated for ethanol fuels.

[Drewmotty]

You’ll be hard pressed to better Gates Barricade fuel hose. 

[stuart]

46 minutes ago, Drewmotty said:

You’ll be hard pressed to better Gates Barricade fuel hose. 

Thats what I stock and use, R14 spec is the best available now.

Stuart.

[My Dads Car]

15 hours ago, RogerH said:

Hi Jamie,

the clearance over the drive shafts looks very good. The diff does not move,unlike a live axle, and the shafts do not swing a ghreat deal.

The outlet from the tank looks as if it is at a slight angle. I assume the pipe is not pulling it. They usually come out straight down.

The rubber connector needs a good 1". If it is tight to go on then it will be tight to come off.  Do use a jubilee typeclip to keep it in place.

Here in the UK we have Ethanol in the petrol and that can have a bad effect on rubber. So we have different grades of rubber to cope with it
it started with R6. Then went to R9 and is now R14.  If your rubber is unmarked then keep an annual eye on it.

As for leak testing - wait until you can put petrol in the tank then add enough to cover the fitting and wait and see.

 

Roger
 

Thank you, Roger, and all those who replied!

The Automec kit came with R9 hose so it seems that is acceptable, at least minimally. I thought the outlet looked a bit on an angle as well; I've taken it off and re-attached twice and came up with the same result. The olive nut is seating fine and the pipe is solid at he joint. I think it's ok but will go cautiously about putting fuel in the tank.

The kit also came with the hose clips Stuart linked to. I attached the the hose to the first length of pipe and then the second, leading all the way to the fuel pump. Which brings up another question: can the long piece of pipe provided be bent into a "C" shape to connect directly into the fuel pump? I know on the original there was another hose junction between two pipes just below the pump with the "C" being a separate piece of tubing. Can someone tell me how wide the "C" pipe is from top to bottom? There is a separate pipe in the kit to make this connection but I also have sufficient pipe on the long run to make that curve. Using the pipe that's in there saves me a, potential, leaky joint in the future.

Thanks,

Jamie

[Ralph Whitaker]

7 hours ago, My Dads Car said:

Thank you, Roger, and all those who replied!

The Automec kit came with R9 hose so it seems that is acceptable, at least minimally. I thought the outlet looked a bit on an angle as well; I've taken it off and re-attached twice and came up with the same result. The olive nut is seating fine and the pipe is solid at he joint. I think it's ok but will go cautiously about putting fuel in the tank.

The kit also came with the hose clips Stuart linked to. I attached the the hose to the first length of pipe and then the second, leading all the way to the fuel pump. Which brings up another question: can the long piece of pipe provided be bent into a "C" shape to connect directly into the fuel pump? I know on the original there was another hose junction between two pipes just below the pump with the "C" being a separate piece of tubing. Can someone tell me how wide the "C" pipe is from top to bottom? There is a separate pipe in the kit to make this connection but I also have sufficient pipe on the long run to make that curve. Using the pipe that's in there saves me a, potential, leaky joint in the future.

Thanks,

Jamie

I wouldn`t connect direct to the pump with the copper pipe, the rubber connector is necessary to allow for the movement of the engine and to leave it out would risk fracturing the pipe. Some older cars are connected direct, my 1948 Hillman for example, but allowance for engine movement is achieved by forming the pipe into a spiral wound spring shape with several turns. Also I would use at least 4 inches of flexible rubber pipe between the ends of the solid pipe to allow for flexing, butting up the ends of the solid pipe inside a rubber tube would be no good at all.

Ralph

[Lebro]

+1

[Z320]

Norma Cobra clips here 

[PaulAnderson]

As a related matter, I noted yesterday that the fuel line on my TR4A seems to vibrate where it rises from the chassis under the bonnet, heading to the fuel pump.  I have a stainless flexi pipe to the petrol pump but the hard line before that seems to have more movement on it than I remember and I’m worried it may vibrate against the sharp edge of the chassis.  Should there be a final clip there to the chassis?   My old moss catalogue shows item 47, part number 130882, CLIP, pipe to hose bracket but I’m not certain if that’s it or how it’s fixed.  Could anyone clarify this please.

 

[stuart]

1 hour ago, PaulAnderson said:

As a related matter, I noted yesterday that the fuel line on my TR4A seems to vibrate where it rises from the chassis under the bonnet, heading to the fuel pump.  I have a stainless flexi pipe to the petrol pump but the hard line before that seems to have more movement on it than I remember and I’m worried it may vibrate against the sharp edge of the chassis.  Should there be a final clip there to the chassis?   My old moss catalogue shows item 47, part number 130882, CLIP, pipe to hose bracket but I’m not certain if that’s it or how it’s fixed.  Could anyone clarify this please.

 

It is supposed to be clipped there to stop exactly the problem you are seeing, FWIW I cut a small length of thick rubber hose slit it lengthways and put it over the edge of the chassis where the pipe comes up in case there is any rubbing.

Stuart.

[Dale Moore]

Thought I would check mine  Haha no clip but there's a square hole in the inside of the chassis which looks like it's where there should be one.  However looks to be more suitable for the brake pipe

Been like that for 25 years +  so hay ho

Dale

[stuart]

1 hour ago, Dale  Moore said:

Thought I would check mine  Haha no clip but there's a square hole in the inside of the chassis which looks like it's where there should be one.  However looks to be more suitable for the brake pipe

Been like that for 25 years +  so hay ho

Dale

Yes thats for a pipe clip same as they have along the chassis.

Stuart.

[PaulAnderson]

This photo of today is what mine looks like.  Feeling along the chassis rail there is a clip fitted which seems to be secure, it just seems as if the fuel pipe part rising upwards vibrates close to the body panel joint, and not far from the brake pipe too.  Theres no sign of physical contact but i might follow Stuarts recommendation of fitting a bit of rubber hose to the sharp edge.

 

[stuart]

17 hours ago, PaulAnderson said:

This photo of today is what mine looks like.  Feeling along the chassis rail there is a clip fitted which seems to be secure, it just seems as if the fuel pipe part rising upwards vibrates close to the body panel joint, and not far from the brake pipe too.  Theres no sign of physical contact but i might follow Stuarts recommendation of fitting a bit of rubber hose to the sharp edge.

 

How old is that braided fuel line? If it’s OE it may not be compatible with ethanol 

Stuart

[PaulAnderson]

 Good observation Stuart.  It is quite old so likely not.  I believe I bought the flexible braided hose from Revington TR ( couldn’t afford their hugely expensive version with the inbuilt fuel tap) but they don’t seem to sell them any more.  I’ll have to look around for a replacement.

[stuart]

1 hour ago, PaulAnderson said:

 Good observation Stuart.  It is quite old so likely not.  I believe I bought the flexible braided hose from Revington TR ( couldn’t afford their hugely expensive version with the inbuilt fuel tap) but they don’t seem to sell them any more.  I’ll have to look around for a replacement.

A section of R14 hose would probably be your best bet. I keep it in stock in 6mm (1/4") and 8mm (5/16") for just that eventuality.

Stuart.

[PaulAnderson]

Do you know of a company that would make me a new flexible hose complete with fittings, ideally with a tap for isolation / security but not essential?

 

I’ve seen https://www.trforums.com/index.php?/topic/92587-fuel-cut-off-tap/

Edited April 14 by PaulAnderson
Link added