Electronic Fuel Injection

[stuart]

22 minutes ago, Andy Moltu said:

Where did you mount the engine/water temperature sensor?

Andy

When I was thinking about it for my 4a I had a boss TIG welded in the thermostat housing opposite to the normal temperature sender.

Stuart.

[PriceLes]

Since the carburation is going, I thought I might as well add a digitally controlled Davies Craig electric water pump along with their electric fan. Of course, there is the chassis front tube brace to contend with which is in the location of the pump destination (The lower radiator hose)

With all the added power needs (including a new sound system) the alternator will need upgrading.

[Trumpy3]

Hi

I'm a bit late into this but I fitted ITB (independent throttle bodies) to my 3A many years ago with sequential injection and wasted spark. I used a pair of Jenyy throttle bodied fitted to an off the shelf Weber manifold. Fuel pumps, filters and swirl pot are mounted under the rear seat.

The  crank sensor is fitted to the front pulley and the cam sensor is built into a gutted distributor. Coolant temp is mounted in the thermostat housing where the bypass hose would be normally fitted. I do not run a thermostat so do not need the bypass.

The ECU is a Megasquirt MS3X. Have not had any problems over many miles. Setting up cold start can be tricky.

Did it as a project. Was quite happy with my twin HS6's but must say the the engine does not loose tune and just goes for years, literally.

Brian

[Andy Moltu]

Why have you got rid of the the bypass hose? Isn’t there a risk of localised overheating until the stat opens?

(or are you running without a stat)

[Trumpy3]

Andy

I have a few mods on my 3A. I run a Volvo 440 cross-flow radiator and a Davis Craig water pump. The water pump controller maintains the set temp by regulating the coolant flow and as such you remove the thermostat, hence no need for the bypass hose. In fact the original water pump and housing has been removed. .

This works well with mild (low 20's) ambient temperature but make it difficult to get the temp above around 77C if its cool. The issue as I see it is the efficiency of the water pump radiator combination. The Davis Craig controller pulses the pump to control the temp. On start it gives a short pulse and rest for a period and repeats this until the temp gets up to about 70C then the pulses shift to a longer pulse. Once the temp reaches your set temp, the pump stays on until the temp drops to the set and so on.  

In my case at least, those longer pulses push too much coolant through the system and prevents the temp from going up past mid 70's unless you are stuck in traffic or stationary. Davis Craig recommend in this case, you fit a thermostat with two 1/8" bleed hole drilled into it. Although my set temp is 86C and I fitted a 85C thermostat, It still wont reach my set temp so I live with high 70's in the winter. I pull the thermostat in summer.

I had the Davies water pump before the Volvo radiator and the system worked fine with the Triumph radiator so its the bigger radiator that is the issue.

Brian 

[Andy Moltu]

I run a similar set up on the Stag (where water pumps are problematic because INPS its location and available seals for ebuilding pumps) . Again overcooling in winter is an issue.

Is there a need for an electric water pump on the 4 pot cars? The pump flow isn’t the rate limiting step in terms of cooling. 

[Trumpy3]

Andy 

No, an electric water pump is not really needed on a four pot but mine has been there for about 20 years now without any issues. I fitted it after running on the track in ambient s of just over 40C and reading engine temps in the high 90s to low 100s. Temps in traffic during summer also became a little concerning. I  fitted the Volvo radiator about 15 years ago after my original TR rad cracked again. I had intended to fit a new core but the expense slowed me down. After some research I elected to fit the Volvo rad. A new Volvo rad cost about AU$170. A re core cost would have been AU$750. The conversion cost me about AU$80.

Conversion was fairly simple. I also love the process.

Brian

 

[Andy Moltu]

Out of interest do you know what Volvo the rad came from?

Did you ever run it with wasted spark or did you go straight for sequential injection? 

[Trumpy3]

Andy

The rad is from the 240,440 series. I currently run sequential injection and wasted spark. My system will run 4 coils but I thought that would be an over complication on a 4 cylinder 6000RPM engine so opted for wasted spark.

This rad fits between the inner guards with about 1" to spare, so a good fit for the 3a. 

Brian

[Stagpowered]

With regard to the Davies Craig water pumps and over cooling in cold weather I discovered this problem 20 odd years ago. Maybe not so much of a problem for Summer driven cars, but when you are driving in sub zero temperatures and the windscreen is freezing up internally as you drive you soon look for a solution.

The biggest problem with the pulsing of the controller, even when a thermostat is fitted, is the feed to the heater is intermittent as well.

I found the simplest ( and cheapest) solution is to run just the pump continuously, fed through a ceramic ignition ballast resistor as fitted to many Triumph models. This gives the pump about 8 volts when running.

This is adequate for most situations, and fitting a switch can give the pump full voltage if really required. At the Castle Combe track day yesterday in my Stag engined TR250 (251 bhp), I never actually bothered switching the booster on to give full voltage.

I use the same system on my modified Stag (235bhp) and on my Rover 3.9 engined 2 door Toledo (270bhp)

These all use an EWP80 which is I think is supposed to be for engines up to 2 litres, they are more than adequate for a wet liner engine.

Neil

[Trumpy3]

Neil

That sounds like a good solution. We do not face the same cold temp issues as you so it would be a much more serious issue for you. Looks like you have found a solution. I will try that out. Its good timing as we are now into autumn.

I already have an over-ride for both the pump and fan. As I do not need the choke I have fitted a headlight switch in place of it in the dash, complete with choke knob,  The first position over rides the controller and turns the fan on. The second position then turns the pump on as well. Never had to use it yet but it is just there in case of a controller failure.

I still intend to run the controller so will need to think about changing my over-ride switch. Thinking about it as I write this, it may be just simply fitting the ballast in the line to the pump with an separate over ride switch the same as I think you have and leave the rest as as.

Brian

[PriceLes]

I bought the EWP115 pump iirc and partly due to also getting a 89mm (2288cc) piston and sleeve kit, are the running hot rumours true is an unknown.

Not much chance of cold weather in QLD having seen up to 39.5C on the cabin temperature gauge.

Edited April 29 by PriceLes
39.5 not 30.5!

[PriceLes]

I got the PM ECU controlled ignition option so will machine a new distributor body as I did for my 1973 Moto Guzzi to hide a digital ignition inside. (The cap was only for visual from a distance) For the Triumph it will be to simplify the body and separate the pick up and rotor to two compartments.

Edited April 29 by PriceLes

[Stagpowered]

19 hours ago, Trumpy3 said:

Neil

That sounds like a good solution. We do not face the same cold temp issues as you so it would be a much more serious issue for you. Looks like you have found a solution. I will try that out. Its good timing as we are now into autumn.

I already have an over-ride for both the pump and fan. As I do not need the choke I have fitted a headlight switch in place of it in the dash, complete with choke knob,  The first position over rides the controller and turns the fan on. The second position then turns the pump on as well. Never had to use it yet but it is just there in case of a controller failure.

I still intend to run the controller so will need to think about changing my over-ride switch. Thinking about it as I write this, it may be just simply fitting the ballast in the line to the pump with an separate over ride switch the same as I think you have and leave the rest as as.

Brian

No reason you can't leave the controller in place to operate the cooling fan, just unplug the controller from the pump and give the pump a ballasted live feed, that way you can quickly put it back how it was if it doesn't improve things

Neil

[Andy Lowe]

Hi.

      As suggested, I have written an article for the TR Action magazine. I have written the article and sent all the pictures to the Tech team and I believe it will be added but not sure when.

Cheers..

Andy Lowe----Author