Fuel Pressure Problem

[Kevo_6]

6 minutes ago, Chris Hale said:

If you go down the Bosch type route my dvi e would be to mount it in the rear wheel arch rather than in the boot/spare wheel well

Cheers Chris, that is my thinking too.

[roy53]

I use Neil but I think prestige have a good reputation 

a bit of a pain but why not try setting up a new supply to the pump from a gallon can etc so as to rule tank supply out

Roy

[Kevo_6]

37 minutes ago, roy53 said:

I use Neil but I think prestige have a good reputation 

a bit of a pain but why not try setting up a new supply to the pump from a gallon can etc so as to rule tank supply out

Roy

Roy that maybe something I could consider. 
Kev.

[Andy Moltu]

Exclude obstruction in the feed pipes/filter to the pump (simply bipass the filter - for test purposes only) and no improvement occurs you have ruled out the filter as a cause. Clamping the return pipe from the PRV shows the PRV may well be stuck if the pressure jumped from 70 to 90 psi but the latter figure suggests the pump is not in good heath. It should be able to hit 105 or more. (Many Bosch pumps will strain their way to 150psi if you do this assuming the pipe doesn’t pop) 

As Chris Hale suggests the Bosch 909 replacement is a good compromise - enough power to deliver fuel in sufficient quantity at 100psi without over doing it and returning to much heat to the tank and mounting it outside keeps the pump cooler than in a hot boot and gets a good head of pressure to feed it. It’s way cheaper than rebuilding a Lucas which is still likely to be marginal as they will have been rebuilt a few times already and very difficult to get into tolerance. If you shop around you can probably get two or three for the price of a rebuilt unit.

Having tried a few pumps over 38 years with the 6 I would say a primer pump like the Facet red top is only need if you mount the Bosch high up. 
The higher capacity pumps like the 044 are overkill and thus add more heat to the fuel.

 

 

[Kevo_6]

10 hours ago, Andy Moltu said:

Exclude obstruction in the feed pipes/filter to the pump (simply bipass the filter - for test purposes only) and no improvement occurs you have ruled out the filter as a cause. Clamping the return pipe from the PRV shows the PRV may well be stuck if the pressure jumped from 70 to 90 psi but the latter figure suggests the pump is not in good heath. It should be able to hit 105 or more. (Many Bosch pumps will strain their way to 150psi if you do this assuming the pipe doesn’t pop) 

As Chris Hale suggests the Bosch 909 replacement is a good compromise - enough power to deliver fuel in sufficient quantity at 100psi without over doing it and returning to much heat to the tank and mounting it outside keeps the pump cooler than in a hot boot and gets a good head of pressure to feed it. It’s way cheaper than rebuilding a Lucas which is still likely to be marginal as they will have been rebuilt a few times already and very difficult to get into tolerance. If you shop around you can probably get two or three for the price of a rebuilt unit.

Having tried a few pumps over 38 years with the 6 I would say a primer pump like the Facet red top is only need if you mount the Bosch high up. 
The higher capacity pumps like the 044 are overkill and thus add more heat to the fuel.

 

 

Thanks Andy, I’m getting my Lucas pump rebuild kit today and I’ll have go at rebuilding my spare Lucas pump. If all fails then it’s either a recon one from Neil Ferguson or I go down the Bosch route. I’m hoping the rebuild goes well so at least I can drive the car for the summer but we shall see. 
Cheers Kev.

[john.r.davies]

Prestige Injection was an excellent firm, and on the retirement of its owner that  reputation has continued under new ownership, TR Trader.   Both websites continue seperately.

John

[Kevo_6]

8 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

Prestige Injection was an excellent firm, and on the retirement of its owner that  reputation has continued under new ownership, TR Trader.   Both websites continue seperately.

John

Cheers John, I used them when I bought the new diaphragm PRV.

[Kevo_6]

This morning I thought I would check the return lines in the tank, all blew through no problem. I then thought I would just start it on the existing setup (before swapping over the pump rebuilt by me spare one) and it started first time and once warmed up a little it ticked over really nice. So I put my pressure gauge on to check and it’s a steady 102psi as preset by Prestige. I suppose I should give it a test drive but a bit wary it might play up a bit.

What do you make of that?

[Steve-B]

Kev, that sounds very promising! Were I you, as soon as temps drop a bit early evening I'd recommend going for a drive with some cold fresh fuel and see how she goes. Hesitating over what-if's will drive you mad, I know all too well from personal experience...!

[Kevo_6]

4 minutes ago, Steve-B said:

Kev, that sounds very promising! Were I you, as soon as temps drop a bit early evening I'd recommend going for a drive with some cold fresh fuel and see how she goes. Hesitating over what-if's will drive you mad, I know all too well from personal experience...!

Thanks Steve, that’s my plan.👍

[Waldi]

Progress!

I hope the pressure stay’s like this and I don’t want to spoil the hoy but since no cause has been foubd yet, it could also be an unknown problem that comes and goes (but cause unknown yet).

I would drive it and see if the pressure stays like this.

Waldi

[Kevo_6]

1 hour ago, Waldi said:

Progress!

I hope the pressure stay’s like this and I don’t want to spoil the hoy but since no cause has been foubd yet, it could also be an unknown problem that comes and goes (but cause unknown yet).

I would drive it and see if the pressure stays like this.

Waldi

My thoughts exactly Waldi, we shall see.🙏

[roy53]

I think changing your prv did the trick and fully charging the battery 

Roy

[Kevo_6]

4 hours ago, roy53 said:

I think changing your prv did the trick and fully charging the battery 

Roy

I’m hoping so Roy, I’ve still not taken it out yet as it’s really hot and so busy out. I need to take it at about 10pm but I keep succumbing to a few cold beers.

I’ll update as soon as I’ve been out.

[Kevo_6]

UPDATE:- Well that didn’t go as I had hoped. Started up first time this morning and I thought it’s all good. Took it out for a short spin and everything was fine, got home and put the pressure gauge back on and pressure was still spot on and then I noticed it dropping slowly until finally the car stalled and the pressure dropped to zero but the pump was still spinning although slowly.

 

 

I think my pump is not very good, time to consider my options. I have been reading many past posts on which is the best pump, pre filters and post filters etc, as far as I can see I need to find a pump that’s about 150lph at about 5bar or as close to that as possible but most are a lot more litres per hour. Also current consumption is another factor.

I either do the leg work and build my own setup or buy an off the shelf setup at a lot more cost.

As always I look forward to your feedback/recommendations.

All best Kev. 

[Steve-B]

Kev, sorry to say that’s exactly how our now-ex Lucas pump sounded before we replaced it. 
 

The good thing is with the wealth of help here + the recent thread on updating the fuel system to avoid cavitation data based guidance is available. 
 

[Kevo_6]

36 minutes ago, Steve-B said:

Kev, sorry to say that’s exactly how our now-ex Lucas pump sounded before we replaced it. 
 

The good thing is with the wealth of help here + the recent thread on updating the fuel system to avoid cavitation data based guidance is available. 
 

Steve, yeah the pump is a gonner. I’ve just got to sort which pump etc I need to get. The thread you mentioned is a very interesting read and very helpful.

Kev.

[Waldi]

Kev,

if you consider a Bosch pump;

I selected Bosch 0-580-464-126 for its relative low flow. 
You can find the pump curves on line (I made a pump comparison a couple of years ago comparing several pumps used by fellow forumites, I am not able to upload it here, not sure why.
Additionally I have a (large) Sytec SSF2012 suction filter, no discharge filter (other than the nylon mesh standard filters in the PI system).

My suction lines are 12 and 10 mm ID.

If you can get a good reconditioned Lucas pump I think that would be a good alternative.

Waldi

Edited July 14 by Waldi
Could not upload picture

[Waldi]

 

 

[Kevo_6]

2 hours ago, Waldi said:

Kev,

if you consider a Bosch pump;

I selected Bosch 0-580-464-126 for its relative low flow. 
You can find the pump curves on line (I made a pump comparison a couple of years ago comparing several pumps used by fellow forumites, I am not able to upload it here, not sure why.
Additionally I have a (large) Sytec SSF2012 suction filter, no discharge filter (other than the nylon mesh standard filters in the PI system).

My suction lines are 12 and 10 mm ID.

If you can get a good reconditioned Lucas pump I think that would be a good alternative.

Waldi

Hi Waldi, I’ve been doing a bit of research from various threads on here, which you have contributed to. Thank you. 
I’ve been considering the Bosch pumps -126 or -053 or -909 or the -952. Also a couple of Sytec pumps, Pierburg and the SKV005. There is the consideration/debate whether to have pre filters or post filters and or both in various degrees of microns. I will also need to get some Gates SAE J30 R14 T2 fuel pipe. Also clips, brackets and fixings.
My Lucas days are over and I shall install whatever I decide to go with, with the help from this forum outside in the rear wheel well.
I think I need to research a lot more. Cheers Kev.

Edited July 14 by Kevo_6

[TR NIALL]

8 hours ago, Kevo_6 said:

Hi Waldi, I’ve been doing a bit of research from various threads on here, which you have contributed to. Thank you. 
I’ve been considering the Bosch pumps -126 or -053 or -909 or the -952. Also a couple of Sytec pumps, Pierburg and the SKV005. There is the consideration/debate whether to have pre filters or post filters and or both in various degrees of microns. I will also need to get some Gates SAE J30 R14 T2 fuel pipe. Also clips, brackets and fixings.
My Lucas days are over and I shall install whatever I decide to go with, with the help from this forum outside in the rear wheel well.
I think I need to research a lot more. Cheers Kev.

Best of luck with you choice Kev and I think your right in deciding to install it outside within the Wheel Arch area,I can’t help with whatever Pump you choose but I’m sure those with more knowledge than myself will be along to help you make the right choice,Cheers and the Best of Luck with whatever you choose.

[Kevo_6]

28 minutes ago, TR NIALL said:

Best of luck with you choice Kev and I think your right in deciding to install it outside within the Wheel Arch area,I can’t help with whatever Pump you choose but I’m sure those with more knowledge than myself will be along to help you make the right choice,Cheers and the Best of Luck with whatever you choose.

Thanks Niall, appreciate it.

[Jules TR6]

9 hours ago, Kevo_6 said:

Hi Waldi, I’ve been doing a bit of research from various threads on here, which you have contributed to. Thank you. 
I’ve been considering the Bosch pumps -126 or -053 or -909 or the -952. Also a couple of Sytec pumps, Pierburg and the SKV005. There is the consideration/debate whether to have pre filters or post filters and or both in various degrees of microns. I will also need to get some Gates SAE J30 R14 T2 fuel pipe. Also clips, brackets and fixings.
My Lucas days are over and I shall install whatever I decide to go with, with the help from this forum outside in the rear wheel well.
I think I need to research a lot more. Cheers Kev.

Maybe check this out...

https://www.prestigeinjection.net/pumps2.htm

https://www.prestigeinjection.net/pricecarg.htm

The Bosch style pumps can't suck, they expect to be gravity fed, hence don't use a fine 'high pressure' filter before the pump, and upgrade to a larger fuel tank outlet (also available from the above link as a complete kit).

An advantage of buying from Carl is you then have someone of vast experience on the end of the phone.

Before the pump I'd recommend a Sytec Red Bullet Aluminium Motorsport Fuel Filter (this quite coarse, has a high and easy flow rate).

After the pump place the normal high pressure fine micron filter, to protect the MU.

I have the Sytec outside under the wheel arch with the pump, then routing inside to the high pressure filter and the PRV, probably better if possible to have the Sytec inside and then the pump and high pressure filter outside (in terms of optimum cooling).

Edited July 15 by Jules TR6

[stuart]

14 hours ago, Waldi said:

Kev,

if you consider a Bosch pump;

I selected Bosch 0-580-464-126 for its relative low flow. 
You can find the pump curves on line (I made a pump comparison a couple of years ago comparing several pumps used by fellow forumites, I am not able to upload it here, not sure why.
Additionally I have a (large) Sytec SSF2012 suction filter, no discharge filter (other than the nylon mesh standard filters in the PI system).

My suction lines are 12 and 10 mm ID.

 

Thats the best set up. Some of you on here may remember one of the Scottish guys always banged on about using that sort of setup and Its how we fit them too.

[Chris Hale]

Fit the filter in the spare wheel well and the pump in the wheel arch.

If you do it correctly fuel is then always going downwards till it gets to the pump, and the pump will have air flowing over it to keep it cool