Let this be a lesson to you all

[stuart]

Thread running on FB at the moment, A well known club member had a vertical link pull out of a trunnion on his TR250. In his own words he had oiled it regularly for the last 14 yrs of ownership,though obviously not dismantled it. FB post

For those of you that dont do FB this is what the thread on the VL looked like.

Stuart.

 

Edited June 29 by stuart

[michaeldavis39]

So is grease better or worse for this area Stuart??

[Waldi]

I use MoS2 grease because it is better suited for this application (just my opinion). I think the manual states they should be oiled.

Waldi

[stuart]

29 minutes ago, michaeldavis39 said:

So is grease better or worse for this area Stuart??

TBH as long as you pump enough through so that clean grease comes out the seal then I dont see a problem. Im sure there will be different opinions as usual.

Stuart.

[Hamish]

There are some serious brake upgrades going on there too. I guess all add the the stresses going through that upright and trunnion 

I guess a big bump lifted the non thread threaded bit out of the trunnion. 

[stuart]

20 minutes ago, Hamish said:

There are some serious brake upgrades going on there too. I guess all add the the stresses going through that upright and trunnion 

I guess a big bump lifted the non thread threaded bit out of the trunnion. 

Interestingly it had been MOTd a few weeks ago too.

Stuart

[harrytr5]

I had one go like that when in France on my then TR6. It did not help matters when the upper inner wishbone bushes were nylon and they absorbed water! Resulting in seizing  up

and putting pressure on the oversize (then) trunnions from a well known supplier around 1998.It was the offside that went and driving on the right with all the undulations finished it off after a thrash round of 1600 miles in five days. I fit all new from the best around and use semi grease regularly on my TR5.

CDD are going to produce the ball jointed ones at some stage but still in development. Be a winner when he does. If we expressed a very good interest he may deliver. Who knows,  but he is a very busy guy and await the outcome.

Regards Harry

[Z320]

What is the lesson to learn, please? 
 

[Richard71]

Someone did field a survey of interest in a trunionless link. I can't remember who though, perhaps it was CDD as Harry mentions above.

Richard.

[Trev Good]

3 hours ago, Hamish said:

There are some serious brake upgrades going on there too. I guess all add the the stresses going through that upright and trunnion 

I guess a big bump lifted the non thread threaded bit out of the trunnion. 

Good spot Hamish!

[Trumpy3]

Yes, what is the lesson? The photo appears to show the pivot bolt is missing. So what has actually failed that caused the resulting damage?

Hard to imagine the bolt pulling out if the initial failure was the upright. Maybe I have missed something and I do not have access to FB?

Brian

 

[RogerH]

Hi Brian,

unless I have got it wrong - the threads on the VL have worn away allowing the VL to pop up when the wheel has (for whatever reason) left the ground.

This is/was a very common issue on Morris Minors (I think).

The lesson is to keep the threads lubricated and visually checked every two or three years.

Roger

[Ralph Whitaker]

I don`t think it needs the wheel to be off the ground, the spring is constantly applying a downwards push on the bottom wishbone assembly and if the threads get worn enough the spring will just push it apart. As for the new MOT, this is proof that current testers are not familiar with our cars and many other classics, and the need to jack the front of the car up under the spring pan to take the pressure off the trunnion when checking for play.

Ralph

[Waldi]

Good point Ralph.

Is the method of how to do an in-situ inspection written somewhere in the manuals? How is the (excess) play measured, just visual?
I may have overlooked this (for almost 4 decades).

Waldi

[multipletriumphsinner]

Sloppy maintenance. There's no good in flogging a dead horse, and by the same token there's not much point in lubricating a s*agged vertical link, and trunnion.

They need to come apart regularly for a visual inspection for corrosion and wear by someone experienced.

I don't suppose Triumph in their wildest dreams ever expected these things to still be on the road after half a century!

I have seen many otherwise superb TR's go through our workshops with dreadful vertical links when we have stripped them for an inspection, just like the one in the picture.

As for going Trunnionless, as the originator of all the kits for the small chassis Triumphs since we launched them in the late 90's we always tell potential customers when asked that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the original set up if it's in good condition, and has been lubricated regularly (twice a year on my own cars).

Do we have automatic intellectual property rights on the term 'Trunnionless' as it wasn't a thing before we launched our kits using that description in 1999?

 

 

[Lebro]

58 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Brian,

unless I have got it wrong - the threads on the VL have worn away allowing the VL to pop up when the wheel has (for whatever reason) left the ground.

This is/was a very common issue on Morris Minors (I think).

The lesson is to keep the threads lubricated and visually checked every two or three years.

Roger

Maximum pull on the threads would be when the wheels are firmly on the ground, or even deflected upwards (going over a speed bump) that is when spring is most compressed, & trying to push the spring plate (& trunnion) away from the chassis & the vertical link.

Bob

[Z320]

1 hour ago, Ralph Whitaker said:

I don`t think it needs the wheel to be off the ground, the spring is constantly applying a downwards push on the bottom wishbone assembly and if the threads get worn enough the spring will just push it apart. As for the new MOT, this is proof that current testers are not familiar with our cars and many other classics, and the need to jack the front of the car up under the spring pan to take the pressure off the trunnion when checking for play.

Ralph

+1

[Z320]

20 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Maximum pull on the threads would be when the wheels are firmly on the ground, or even deflected upwards (going over a speed bump) that is when spring is most compressed, & trying to push the spring plate (& trunnion) away from the chassis & the vertical link.

Bob

+1

[stuart]

You can do a check yourself, jack up under the spring pan till the wheel is a couple of inches off the ground and use a long lever under the wheel and lift up and down that will show play anywhere in the trunnion cross bolt bushes, however unless your vertical link thread is as worn as the one I showed it will probably stay in the trunnion. I suspect the one shown was on the last bit of threads left in the trunnion and just had enough. 

Ive seen some bad ones over the years on dismantling like this one.

Stuart.

 

[stuart]

10 hours ago, Trumpy3 said:

Yes, what is the lesson? The photo appears to show the pivot bolt is missing. So what has actually failed that caused the resulting damage?

Hard to imagine the bolt pulling out if the initial failure was the upright. Maybe I have missed something and I do not have access to FB?

Brian

 

The Vertical link thread is virtually non existent.

Stuart.

 

[multipletriumphsinner]

That looks like copper grease! 

 

[Robert Sackley]

When I purchased my TR5 from a private seller a few years ago it appeared to be in excellent condition and came with a new MoT. A short time later I asked my local (knowledgeable) garage to check the tracking and was asked to visit the premises to view the vertical play in the trunnions. Approx. 3mm was evident when a lever was inserted under the wheel when the car was supported on the chassis. I was advised that, had the car been presented for a MoT, it would have failed and been declared 'dangerous'. I carefully drove the half mile home , stripped the suspension to reveal the trunnion threads to be worn to knife edges and close to stripping. The comment from the (well respected) supplier of the new trunnions was that the only time that such wear had been seen was when recovering a car which had suffered a collapsed front suspension. 

A lucky escape and a note to never visit the garage which had issued the original MoT!

[stuart]

46 minutes ago, multipletriumphsinner said:

That looks like copper grease! 

 

Thats just light, apparently he regularly oiled them.

Stuart.

[stuart]

2 minutes ago, Robert Sackley said:

When I purchased my TR5 from a private seller a few years ago it appeared to be in excellent condition and came with a new MoT. A short time later I asked my local (knowledgeable) garage to check the tracking and was asked to visit the premises to view the vertical play in the trunnions. Approx. 3mm was evident when a lever was inserted under the wheel when the car was supported on the chassis. I was advised that, had the car been presented for a MoT, it would have failed and been declared 'dangerous'. I carefully drove the half mile home , stripped the suspension to reveal the trunnion threads to be worn to knife edges and close to stripping. The comment from the (well respected) supplier of the new trunnions was that the only time that such wear had been seen was when recovering a car which had suffered a collapsed front suspension. 

A lucky escape and a note to never visit the garage which had issued the original MoT!

Ive seen it before when classics presented for MOTs looking nice and shiny and testers have just given it a visual inspection underneath without going through the normal rigmarole and then just passed it, needless to say I dont use that garage anymore and my usual tester will go through the whole thing with a fine toothcomb, the only thing they are wary about is using shaker plates on wire wheel cars.

Stuart.

[Z320]

Hi,

this eveneing I will dive into my scrap boxes:

why is the thraed of the vertical link worn 2/3 of its lenght, and 1/3 not?

Just a question....

I'll be back, Marco

 

Edited June 30 by Z320