TR5 original radiator hoses

[saffrontr]

Richard,

The black and gold hoses are certainly listed in the TR5 parts books on page 47 as fitted from comm no CP???? and future, no commission number provided, but were they ever fitted?

I have a factory photograph of the engine bay of CP2139-O taken in May 1968 and it doesn't have the black & golds. I have attached an image of that photo.  I also have a number of images of the engine bays of the TR6 prototype X776 and pre-production car CP25001-O which were fitted with TR5 engines CP1860E and CP2485E and they don't have them, so if I was a betting man I think they were never fitted presumably because of priority being given to the TR250 .

However if there is someone out with a period engine bay image of a TR5 showing them fitted, say from a road test or factory image that would be provide the evidence needed.

cheers

Derek

 

 

 

Edited July 5 by saffrontr

[RAHTR4]

Derek,

Thank you for the informative response.

Due to the reference to the importance of the market in the U.S.A. Triumph must have viewed the gold and black hoses as a very important sales feature for the TR250 and as we all know American’s do like a bit of “Bling”.

Regards, Richard

[Don H.]

9 hours ago, RAHTR4 said:

Derek,

Thank you for the informative response.

Due to the reference to the importance of the market in the U.S.A. Triumph must have viewed the gold and black hoses as a very important sales feature for the TR250 and as we all know American’s do like a bit of “Bling”.

Regards, Richard

So a yellow stripe on a piece of mostly-buried black rubber constitutes bling?  Ah, I love England...🤣

I might look for some engineering reason for the change and for the yellow telltale.  Something like a rubber formulation or hose construction optimized for the much higher ambient temperatures in some parts of my country, or an accomodation to resist different antifreeze formulations.  That kind of thing would make more sense to me.

Edited July 5 by Don H.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

I too puzzle as to why the yellow stripe was adopted for North American market models.  If it were bling why not fit six shooter door handles.?   Nice!   

Yes I agree with Don.   A rubber formulation change identified by the yellow stripe perhaps to denote a quality status..  Let us not forget the factory went to green hoses at a later stage, again why?   We need the factory drawings to compare the materials used in plain black through to green.   Lots of luck with that if the part number remains constant but the spec changes.   Sometimes the drawing tgat is available has all the modification changes on it.  Sourcing info would help too   Was original from one company and later from another?  
At this point consider the use of Stromberg carbs instead of SU on the TR4/4A   That change was said to be down to industrial disputes that interrupted supply    

The yellow stripe and the fact the servo hose  has a similar yellow marking may be significant or just coincidental.

 

 

Edited July 5 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[stuart]

On 7/5/2026 at 8:22 AM, saffrontr said:

Richard,

The black and gold hoses are certainly listed in the TR5 parts books on page 47 as fitted from comm no CP???? and future, no commission number provided, but were they ever fitted?

I have a factory photograph of the engine bay of CP2139-O taken in May 1968 and it doesn't have the black & golds. I have attached an image of that photo.  I also have a number of images of the engine bays of the TR6 prototype X776 and pre-production car CP25001-O which were fitted with TR5 engines CP1860E and CP2485E and they don't have them, so if I was a betting man I think they were never fitted presumably because of priority being given to the TR250 .

However if there is someone out with a period engine bay image of a TR5 showing them fitted, say from a road test or factory image that would be provide the evidence needed.

cheers

Derek

 

 

 

No left hand radiator baffle board either.

Stuart.

[stuart]

10 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

I too puzzle as to why the yellow stripe was adopted for North American market models.  If it were bling why not fit six shooter door handles.?   Nice!   

Yes I agree with Don.   A rubber formulation change identified by the yellow stripe perhaps to denote a quality status..  Let us not forget the factory went to green hoses at a later stage, again why?   We need the factory drawings to compare the materials used in plain black through to green.   Lots of luck with that if the part number remains constant but the spec changes.   Sometimes the drawing tgat is available has all the modification changes on it.  Sourcing info would help too   Was original from one company and later from another?  
At this point consider the use of Stromberg carbs instead of SU on the TR4/4A   That change was said to be down to industrial disputes that interrupted supply    

The yellow stripe and the fact the servo hose  has a similar yellow marking may be significant or just coincidental.

 

 

Jeff Marks might know about the engineering changes there, right up his street.

Stuart.

[dblenk]

Is Jeff still around after moss london closed ???

[stuart]

8 minutes ago, dblenk said:

Is Jeff still around after moss london closed ???

He works for a similar outfit though considerably more up market, still in London.

Stuart.

[68tr]

While I cannot comment on the reason why the black and yellow hoses were issued to the TR250, I do know one additional fact. The TR5 touring kits did have striped hoses included and not plain black hoses.......

Mike

[trchris]

I’ve read a road test report on the 250 from 1968 they mentioned the black and yellow hoses and also some strips of reflective tape outlining the top from the rear and sides visible at night but not in daylight another safety touch by Triumph ?

Chris

Edited July 7 by trchris

[stuart]

17 hours ago, trchris said:

I’ve read a road test report on the 250 from 1968 they mentioned the black and yellow hoses and also some strips of reflective tape outlining the top from the rear and sides visible at night but not in daylight another safety touch by Triumph ?

Chris

Yes original TR250 hood had a reflective strip from the top of the "B" post to above the rear window.

Stuart.

[Kenrow]

Bumble Bee hoses are available here in the states. Not cheap, but if you have to have them you have to have them...

yellow-striped-radiator-hoses

 

PS: Gary (F1000Racer) also makes the 250 seat wires and is working on the steering wheel center.

 

 

[Don H.]

Those following this thread might enjoy reading a private conversation I had with a guy I know long retired from the Standard (they never used Triumph as the make moniker, even after the company name changed in 1973ish.  Right up to the cessation of production in the early 80s, employees always referred to the company as ‘the Standard’).  There's a network still of these guys -- many of you likely know some of  'em -- although they don't often get involved in much current marque club stuff.

Nothing hard and fast here about yellow-striped coolant hoses, but some very interesting clues!

============= 

There's a thread ongoing on the TR Register (UK) forum about the original radiator hoses used on TR5/TR250.  
https://www.trforums.com/index.php?/topic/93517-tr5-original-radiator-hoses/

One forumite has posted an engineering document specifying the TR250 change from normal black hoses to black with yellow tracer, dated only weeks before production started.

Some people are concluding this was to increase the bling for American buyers.  Nah, I say.  There almost had to be an engineering reason for it.

Does any of that ring any bells for you?

============= 

Hi, Don,

Personally, I don’t actually remember TRs having different hoses, though two of my still living colleagues from the Standard Motor Company export sales department say they remember their appearance on the scene. They both say the colouring was to underscore the fact the hoses carried hot coolant and this was because US safety regs demanded such equipment. But what none of us can recall is why didn’t Spitfire and GT6 do the same and we don’t recall seeing coloured hoses on those models.

Cheers,

============= 

…and I think it was the 1970 model year the TR6 got green hoses!  Go figure. 

Thanks to you and your friends for the recollections. Interesting thinking, the safety alert aspect.  I don’t remember such requirements back then as Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards got serious for the 1968 model year, but maybe Triumph were reading the regulations in a different way than the other manufacturers. 

============= 

Re the interpretation of US safety regs. Few people outside the company fully realise how disruptive they were for non-US manufacturers and especially in the early days up to 1973. 

The general feeling across Europe was that those who imposed those standards were actively doing everything they could to protect US manufacturers against the imports. Broadly speaking, Detroit got twelve months clear of what would be required, while importers only got six months. 

Sure, we were all given indications of what might be required but nothing was cast in bronze until the June of each forthcoming model year. What we had to do was prepare three cars of each new model year car and have it in the US for inspection by 30th June latest. The cars were then returned with the necessary approval or rejection stamps so production could start immediately to ensure new model year cars could be in dealer showrooms for 1st November. 

This tactic played hell with the plethora of suppliers being held in limbo until the last minute in terms of what they would be making - or not. As the years passed until I left BL, each new model year impacted the factories in the UK and Europe because increasing regulations were dictating an ever more divergent model of car. Simply, North American spec differed more and more from Rest of the World spec and the ideal solution would have been to create a separate factory to build only US cars. Trouble was, all exporters across Europe were so stuck for cash they had neither the land nor the cash for such an investment. Within the UK, MG and Jaguar came off worst because their plants were way too small to effectively deal with the problem. 

The overall result was delivery lead times went out of the window and no individual market received the number of cars they really wanted. The “lounge bar” experts even today pour scorn on that general dilemma but they usually haven’t the first idea of what they’re talking about but be assured, companies like BMW, Daimler Benz, VW, Renault and FIAT were all in the same boat. 

From memory, the only people who came out of this situation unscathed was Japan whose government just threw money at the problem to ensure no world market got compromised on deliveries. As far as the UK plants were concerned, we just had to bite the bullet and do what we could and just hope there wouldn’t be a labour relations issue either internally or with our suppliers to create even further chaos.

Post this reply to the TR Register if you think it would help.

Cheers,

[Hamish]

That’s interesting Don and sound to be on the money.

i know my dad had to deal with the North American requirements at rolls Royce where he was head of PR from the mid 70s.

the cars design were changed to suite eg the rubber bumpers that others had to cope with and be came a world wide design because it was a step too far to have such and engineering change just for North America 

the radiators had to be re-engineered so the spirit of ecstasy retracted. This was in case of contact with a pedestrian